The Five Things I Should Know by the End of Our First Date July 16, 2007
Posted by charmingbutsingle in Dating, Listing is fun and easy, Men, Single Girl Cliches.trackback
I don’t know if this is the exact way the vote worked out, but it seemed like a lot of people wanted a dating list. So I present, in no particular order, the five things I’d like to find out about you on our first date:
That you can hold a decent conversation – without needing booze as a crutch. I used to joke that I’d go on a first date with anyone who met the following criteria – not evil, able to hold a conversation over a cup of coffee. It should go without saying, but if talking to you is like talking to a stone garden statute, I’m going to pass. The thing is, I could talk to a stone garden statue. I could talk to an empty chair. I could talk to a fence. I’m not ashamed to admit that I am an accomplished talker. But eventually even I tire of hearing my own voice after awhile, so if you’re not ready to hear your own, move along.
This isn’t to say that I don’t want to talk at all. Many have tried to outtalk me. Few have succeeded. But we need to be able to reach a happy medium where you talk some and I talk some and we learn about each other.
Also, despite my love of beer and other alcoholic drinks, I’d rather we not get sloshed on date one. Because if you can’t make conversation unless you’re two drinks in, then you probably aren’t a good conversationalist. This is why a coffee date is a nice way to start things off.
That you’re excited about something. Maybe you like to play soccer. Maybe you take photographs or collect something. Maybe you just really love your job. Perhaps you’re an avid golfer or love seeing bands play. Whatever it is, you better have something that excites you, other than watching bad TV, because otherwise I’m going to worry that you lack hobbies or interests. And I believe that everyone should have something or many things that make them tick. Life throws enough mediocrity at us all each day – if you can’t entertain yourself, I doubt you’ll be able to entertain me.
Why you chose your current job. I firmly believe that when you’re devoting forty plus hours to doing something each week, you should have a reason for doing so. Maybe your job isn’t perfect. Few people’s are. But I’m looking for someone with career goals, who sees their current job as, at the least, a stepping stone for their future. Also, if we’re going to date, I’m going to have to hear about your job and possibly even meet your coworkers, so I’d like to have something marginally interesting to discuss.
Where you like to hang out and what you like to do there. It’s always good to know going in if we’re socially compatible. Not that we only eat at the same restaurants or get coffee at the same shops, but compatible in the kinds of places we like. Because if you never want to leave the house and all I want to do is go out, we’re going to clash eventually. Same goes for you only wanting to spend every night in some crappy hole in the wall that serves PBR in the can when I’d like to put on my black dress and go somewhere we can overpay for glasses of wine and cheese boards.
Something we can joke about later. I sometimes (usually) forget to pack my “serious” gene, especially around men I like. My best flirting techniques involve joking and sarcasm. Call me a fourth grader, but if I can’t be somewhat teasing and playful with you, I’m probably not feeling the chemistry. And if you can’t take a light ribbing from time to time, you absolutely 100 percent will not want to date me.
I just came back from a coffee date, the first date with someone I didn’t meet online in years. Amazing…I was running these things through my mind going “check…check” before I even read your post. Needless to say, this coffee date was more enjoyable than the many many bar, dancing, whatever (retarded) dates I’ve had in the past few years. Weeee!
While I certainly agree that they’re generally not ideal first-date fodder, there’s a lot to be said for hole-in-the-wall bars involving canned PBR and bartenders who are flammable as soon as they wake up in the morning. I’m sure the clientele would have no problem with your little black dress, either, although bringing along one of those transparent rain slickers might be a good idea, just in case.
So, you want the guy to have a personality and a life? Geez, how demanding.
But I’m curious: what do you do if you meet a guy who’s got a good job, but isn’t sure if it’s what he wants to do for the rest of his career?
As for the ribbing, a guy has to be careful. Go too far with the wrong girl, or even the right girl too quickly, and it just comes off as mean…
Great list, all of them are important things to find out about on the first date. I love a man with a sense of humor and can hold a decent conversation.
All well & good C. Me I always broke it down more finely. [Yes, even on first dates]. Thusly:
1.) Conversation was a biggie with me. If you can’t make intelligent conversation, well there’s probably good evidence to say that you can’t for a reason. Sometimes that reason was exhaustion from a hard work day/week, sometimes just too much drink, or worse, sometimes not much to say. If the latter, it was imperative to discern if this was because of a natural quirk in personality, and/or sometimes if it was likely due to being a bit dim/slow/’young’ or just ‘not on the same page’. This last bit was my principal quarry. If the gal was not smart, or we were ’simply not on the same page’ (ie. not communicating well), I usually was not at all attracted to her.
So I usually could figure this out inside of about 5 min. Just by asking some simple questions & listening carefully & replying to them. You could do this with coffee, hell you could actually do it on the phone in a pinch too. My wife is famously not a talker. But what she does say always carried the substantial weight of carefully considered contemplation and almost sterling diplomatic presentation. And she could do this very quickly, quietly if necessary & disarmingly so. It was always readily apparent that she was one smart gal. Why bother with anything less?
2.) Me, I’m famously over excited about any number of topics both obscure & topical. Politics & ‘current affairs’ certainly. But I usually can talk with some knowledge to almost anyone about their favorite hobbies & interests. This is what makes for good conversation in the lost art of such. I had a talk earlier this eve on research into an area of Tropical Medicine with someone I’ve never met before. I could recall when & where and the number of outbreaks of the last instances of plague recorded in the US. Without the benefit of Wiki playing in the background to refer to. I can do this with art history, with architecture, obscure wars, material culture going back centuries and various other interests large & small. It rarely helped me out much on dates.
Now the wife always seemed to enjoy it, up to a point. Still, there’s always something that might lie beneath an otherwise pleasant conversation that might set the old man off & going like an ill timed IED. As ever actually. As some may have already surmised.
3.) Jobs & locations. Every American alive and under the age of 45 today is fully predicted to have several careers in their lifetimes. Not just jobs. Careers. The Census says somewhere north of 5. (About Seven actually). Many will be wholly unrelated to your major or what you studied in college (well besides the usual beer & sex, drugs etc.). There’s many good and valid reasons for this fact, many of them dealing with economics. But most people will move for a good job, and typically always have. But luck and happenchance have a lot to do with it too.
For years when asked this question there was the long answer, and the short one. My short one was & is always, ‘Misfortune & misadventure’. I’ve been very fortunate in my life overall. But I’m certain not all of this can be adequately planned for. Everyone should have goals. Many folks that you’ll run into are working on their plan ‘Q’ & ‘Z’, after enduring all sorts of switchbacks and rock falls on life’s dusty trails.
4.) Meeting at least some of the friends is always important. And for the guys, always it really should be the friends they think are worth meeting. You might go hunting with ‘Shorty & Pete’ every season, but you know that they’re a hard act to follow & an acquired taste for most. Ditto for most of the regular drinking buds. The less said the better usually. Many times you really don’t want to know where this bloke hangs out. Start a new tradition, and start in a new venue. This way you’re less likely to run into anyone who might tell you tall tales about ‘way back when’. They’re mostly unsavory anyway!
5.) Humor is really important. Almost everywhere. And consistently underrated And no one’s getting any prettier or younger. But you really can get funnier with age, especially if you work on it. This is what will make you the favorite relation at the picnic or the BBQ. Not that Aunt Mary was a stunning aloof beauty with a bevy of rich aristocratic suitors that always were trailing after her. It’s that Aunt Hazel was funny as hell and when she got together with Millie, there was no stopping them. They could out cook & curse any 9 women alive. At the same time. While singing folks songs from their youth. In tune. With the grandkids pulling at their skirts. Smiling though thick & thin. This is what the next generations will recall. The big personalities of the family. The big love, the sloppy kisses, the mugging for the cameras, the impromptu skits. Aunt Charlotta’s playing the ‘Flight of the Bumblebee’ quickly on her flugelhorn while May & the younger cousins pretended to do a strip tease for the closing number. Every year for the 4th of July picnic. That crazy Aunt in the attic was a not just a fixture of Southern Gothic literature. She was a much beloved member of the family. And if she was at all funny, she was never in the attic for long. Everyone saw to that.
But a useful start. And this is where all those ’speed dating’ franchises got their start too. Well why not do a dozen at a time? What could hurt? Ears. Brains. Bottoms. Gullets… Cheers & Good Luck! ‘VJ’
Vj can be so long winded. But entertaning too, so it balances out.
Very informative and perhaps what we all look for.
I think I might tattoo your list somewhere on my body, so that I can go check it next time I meet a new guy. I always seem to miss at least one or two of these points… although the last guy I dated had all of them, but never called me back we went after our second date. So I’d add:
6) Displays clear signs of interest in me. Asks me questions about myself, gives me feedback on what I’m saying… and if he tells me he’s going to call/text/email, he actually does it!
You can call me, ‘Sir’ — I don’t mind a hole in the wall dive from time to time. Heck, I have my own hole in the wall dive. It is the going there four nights a week that I hate. I want more variety and something better than PBR. And when I dated a guy who only went to this one bar, it was really rough because he never wanted to meet me out with my friends. And so when I joined him for drinks in my black dresses and heels, I felt really out of place — to the point that people raised their eyebrows. Just not my scene at all.
GeekHiker — I don’t discount someone because they’re unsure about their career, as long as they’re a hard worker. But I don’t ever want to date someone who hates his job, complains about his job, wants a better job, but refuses for some reason to not work to better his career. We all get in momentary slumps at work and I don’t expect people to up and quit their jobs at the first sign of displeasure. I know that it sometimes takes time to get a new job. (I’m one of those “don’t quit until you have a new job” people.) But when someone is stuck in a job they hate for years and years and years and they never even try to find a new one, then I think it says something about their personality.
Amen! Especially #2. I’ve found that those who aren’t passionate about something in their own right are insecure around those who are, and tend to make little jabs at you for having a life. And when that starts happening - NEXT!
Great list. And I completely agree on #5. If a guy can’t take a little sarcasm, I am NOT the girl for him…
It’s such a small thing, but yes, conversation is a make or breaker. Even if I have to do the leading, make it easy on me!
Charming, I love reading your blog and everytime I wonder, why is she still single? You seem to be an open minded and easy going type of girl. Maybe your standard is too high, or for some strange reason god is playing with you and making you meet all the wrong men.
All 5 of those things you listed seem like common sense to me.
The only logical conclusion I come to is that you may not practice what you preach?
A great list! I hope that I get a chance to use it sometime soon!!
My favorite on your list is number five. I’ve used it for years. If I couldn’t have sarcastic banter with someone, it just wasn’t worth it. My favorite conversations with my boyfriend are still the ones when we volley back and forth.
There were many things I could compromise on or be flexible about, but being someone who views sarcasm as a form of intelligence (and amazingly enough, needing/wanting to be with an intelligent man), that lack of sarcastic banter signaled far more than a lack of chemistry.
I love the last item on your list! I’m a joking, sarcastic person by nature, and it comes out even moreso around cute guys…so to meet a guy who a) can’t take the ribbing, and b) can’t rib back is an automatic turn-off.
Great entry! =)
Ok, I am so loving this list! Great job!
Nice list. Maybe I’ll make one. I never even thought about what I’d like to find out about a guy on the first date!
That’s pretty much similar to my list for the women I would want to date.
i agree about coffee dates i think it’s a good first time thing. . is it wrong if i get annoyed by someone who does not appreciate a really good cup of coffee or does not drink the stuff at all i think that is a dating requirement of mine regardless of how unfair
I like to tell this joke and see if they “get it”:
Two atoms walk out of a bar,
One atom pats himself down and then looks at the other and says,
“Dude, I left my electrons inside.”
The other atom asks “Are you sure?”
The first atom says “Yeah, I’m positive!”
Sense of humor check AND intelligence check, all in one shot.
i love this post and i totally agree. i’ve always said that i can talk to cardboard paper. but that said, i like the conversation to be two-ways. i’ve gone out with guys who were waay too quiet and i just started to feel stressed out at having to think of the next topic to talk bout. oh and a first date at a club is never a good idea… whether you get sloshed or not. there’s just too much distractions haha!
Wait, you’re NOT supposed to get sloshed on a first date? That’s absurd. ABSURD, I say!
I figured that’s what you meant, but thanks for the clarification.
And personally, I think PBR should be avoided at all possible costs…
I so need my dates to be excited about something… anything… just have some ounce of passion in their being. Great post!
Great list! I am so glad I found your blog, I love it. I read through these comments and saw the one about you being a great girl and still being single….do you hate hearing that as much as I do? The answer is easy, the right guy has not come along yet. I rather be alone than with the wrong guy!
I’m taking this list on my next date. I should probably print it up now since my next date may not be until the 2010’s.
Regarding #1 - I usually actually change this to be, if *I* can hold a conversation without needing booze as a crutch, then I’ll go for a second date. I can talk to anyone about anything, but if I’m not getting good response, then I clam up. Give me a glass of wine and all is well again. That alchohol can be tricky - makes you think you’re having a better time than you are. Case in point. Last weekend and 3 bottles of sake between us. Loved him! Next day. Not so much.
PS - thanks for popping over to my neglected blog. Maybe one of the three people that read it will come by for a visit.
I’m 100% with you on the last one. I always like a guy who can “fight back,” too. He can totally win me over with a taste of my own medicine.
Great blog as always.
But if I may… I would like to add something to the list.
#5) What’s his relationship with his family? You can tell a lot about a person by their relationship with their families. Now there is always that exception that has a bad relationship with them for a legitimate reason. And that’s alright. But you always have to know what that reason is. Someone who just doesn’t talk to them/care about them/etc. says a lot about their character.
Family is forever. And if he is willing to just give them up, how willing is he to give up you?
(I found that one out the hard way. Should have read all the signs. But, you live and you learn.)
Great list! It’s definitely an important start. If the guy can’t move the conversation, then he’ll lose my attention pretty quick. I myself would like to get better at asking probing questions in a non-interrogative way.
In terms of knowing how the guy likes to spend time, I think it’s good to hear if the guy spends some of the that time with friends, not just doing solitary activities such as watching tv or being on the computer all day.
Amen, sister….I have the EXACT same list. The other thing I want on a first date is reciprocal conversation. That it’s not just “my date show”. Meaning, my date asks me about me and wants to know those things about me too. I have been on way too many dates where it’s just the guy going on and on about himself.
That’s a killer for me.
great list! you are soooo right about the drunken first dates too, that’s never a good idea. and how alot of “suprise!” babies are brought into the world.
What a fantastic list. The humor thing isn’t such a biggie for me, mainly because I’m so unfunny. Like I couldn’t tell a joke to save my life. I’m only funny when I’m not trying to be. For me, family values are more important than being funny so I would rather know about a guy’s relationship with his family.
[...] and easy, Single Girl Cliches, Dating, Men. trackback The companion piece to the other day’s “The Five Things I Should Know by the End of Our First Date.” How many beers you can drink in two hours. No one, especially me, wants to babysit a drunken [...]
holy cow you have a lot of readers now!
again, we share a brain. but i really liked this post — i hadn’t thought about most of these, but you’re absolutely correct. i will link to this, too, if it’s ok.